DA: The Worm Has Turned

The Worm Has Turned

Electrified Worms
2002 Darwin Award Nominee
Unconfirmed

(October 2002, Norway) It's a well-known fishing trick. Put 12V electrodes into the ground if you want worms come to the surface. One 23-year-old Laagendalsposten man withdrew his genes form the pool when he tried to speed up the process. He figured that 220V, 50Hz, would bring more worms out faster, and he decided to test his theory. Alas, he did so squatting on a steel bucket, holding an electrode in one hand with the other in the ground a few feet. He seemed determined to enter the eternal fishing grounds. Quicker than spit, that wish was granted. Our Darwin winner leaves only parents -- and no offspring -- back by the earthly creek. 

I find this story a little unbelieveable....

Electricity has to flow accross the chest to kill you. (easily possible even at 110V)

Elecricity also flows from most -ve to most +ve.

so given the below, with electrodes marked A&B:

          0
       -----
          |
        /   \
A      /---\                           B
|     /       \                          |
#######################

why would the electricity go anywhere near the guy? surely it would go straight from A to B unless the bucket offered less resistance than the ground, even then the combination of person and bucket would probably be more resistance than the patch of ground under the bucket. esp if the guy was wearing shoes....Although, the story says "sitting" i also find that a bit odd. It would have to be a pretty big bucket to keep his feet of the ground (and therefore serve any purpose)

so, is the above reasoning accurate (UL)? or is the story actually possible (HM/DA)?
or am i missinterpreting the story?

Well, it says that he was actually holding one of the "electrodes" while the other was in the ground "a few feet away." That would create a definite current path through his body.

However, I don't think this is really possible. The fact that he was on a stainless bucket doesn't really make a difference. The breaking point is that it supposedly went through the ground. It is assumed that current would have to travel through the moisture in the ground, and this seems most unlikely, although I can't really give any definite examples.

I'm not sure if the fact that he was using AC current would make a difference, but I don't think 220 V is enough to travel through a few feet of dirt (unless it's completely saturated).

Naturally, I could be wrong.

Picture this: Joe Shmoe is about to go fishing. But, he needs some worms. So he sits down, turns on the power, sticks one node in the ground and picks up the other one.

ZAP!

This process I find entirely believable. However, the current would have had to pass through his pants--which I believe has high resistance. Unless of course they were wet (eeeeeeeew!).

I would, however, like to see some other verification of the story. Do we have it somewhere in the slush pile? (too lazy to look)

maybe I dont know my AC as well as i should, but since this is mains voltage AC, isnt just holding ONE electrode and being a complete circuit with the ground enough in that case?

(ie, where the other electrode is is irrelevent)

I agree with Psymon.

Just as an experiment. Shove a piece of rebar in the ground about 6 inches. Now take a potential from it to a 110V line.  Now how much surface area does that peice of rebar that is in the ground have compared to a kneecap,palm, or a leg coming in contact with the ground.

The earth in general makes a pretty good ground especially if there is moisture present and has a decent mineral content.  Most lightning protection systems require checks under NFPA that rely on the fact that the earth under most conditions does not have a lot of resistance.

I totally believe the story, I have worked as an electrician, and I have seen people shocked in roughly this same scenario.  One was a guy just tying a neutral/ground back to an outside ground rod while holding the uninsulated wire in his hand when he got bit and was trying to figure out why.

The story is plausible but I don't buy it as a true story.
First: the use of 12v to do this job is unbelievable. Maybe a 12 electric cattle fencer but not straight 12 volts. See web links below.
Second: Where did he find a stainless steel bucket? Seems really rare to me. Most the buckets I've seen are plastic. The metal ones are galvanized.
Third: There is no mention of names, exact dates, or places. No way to verify this story.
Fourth: It is virtually impossible to get shocked through a metal material that a person is standing on, unless the voltage source is being held. The story reads as if this weren't the case. Either way it is possible to electrocute yourself with one of these devices. See link below. However, it is impossible to do so unless you come in contact with the metal rod.
Fifth: Yes! The best way to get electrocuted is through a chest traveling voltage source, hand to hand, not butt cheek to butt cheek.

Most worm getting devices I've heard of use straight 110 VAC. These devices when built and operated by a laymen are extremely dangerous. Someone adding to that dangerousness by using 220 VAC is a complete idiot. The device would have worked just as well to have spaced two probes out and attach them to the same 110 plug. 220 V referenced to ground is only 110 Volts, per wire.

See The Darwin Awardee;
Do it yourself Do yourself in


cps.gov worm getter

Electric "Worm Getter" Worm Probe Recalled By Six Retailers; Electrocution Hazard Cited
PRODUCT: Approximately 83,000 electric WG6-S and WG8-L "Worm Getter" worm probes, manufactured by Handy Marketing Company. The probes are used by fishermen to shock fishing worms to the soil's surface. The probes have a single energized metal rod, enclosed in a white plastic, spring- activated guard on one end and a black plastic bicycle grip on the other end. The affected probes were sold by Kmart, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, Fishing Hot Spots, the Sportsman's Guide, and Gander Mountain.

PROBLEM: CPSC is aware of more than 30 deaths involving functionally-identical worm probes. Consumers have been electrocuted by contacting the exposed metal shafts and shocked by touching the ground in the vicinity of the probe.

WHAT TO DO: Owners of affected worm probes should stop using the product and return it to the place of purchase for a full refund. If you purchased a probe from a retailer not listed, contact the company and inform CPSC at 1-800-638-2772 to help identify other possible retailers. If you are not sure where the probe was purchased, you are advised to destroy the probe.

WASHINGTON, DC -- In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), six retailers today announced the recall of WG6-S and WG8-L electric "Worm Getter" worm probe models due to the potential electric shock and electrocution hazard. Approximately 83,000 worm probes were manufactured by the Handy Marketing Company, Grand Rapids, MI and sold from 1980 through 1992. The worm probes sold for about $11 to $28 each.

Electric worm probes are used by fishermen to shock fishing worms to the soil surface. The WG6-S and WG8-L electric Worm Getter models have a single energized metal rod. The probes are energized by household electricity at line voltage, typically 110 to 120 volts alternating current. The metal rod of the probe is designed to be inserted into the ground with one or more extension cords connecting it to an electrical receptacle.  

Since there are thirty deaths attributed to these devices, it is hard to say this is extraordinary.

brerabit

I have worked as an electrician,

And I'm a comedian.

Sorry old private joke. See "do your self in thread." Nothing personal.

When you get in the path of high voltage electricity your body acts like a giant resistor. This only happens if the person is touching a live wire and completing the circuit by touching ground. If the person is only touching the wire and not the ground his body will act like a capacitor.

So, this story is probably true then, but needs a MUCH better write up. We dont seem to be clear what happened. I first said standing on the bucket (as thats what makes sense to me) but after re reading the story, he was sat on the bucket. therefore current would flow from hand to butt, via the chest.

but just some very simple points (obv is the ignoring of these that make it darwin material...but anyway)

1)touching an uninsulated wire? duh!
2)why not put the electrodes in place, THEN switch it on?
3)METAL bucket?
4)SAT on the bucket?

also - the story says middle of august, i would guess the ground was pretty dry and hard.

(additional note - skin has a resistance of 500k-2M ohms. try it with a multimeter. )

(aditional additional note: try it with AC current and a volt/amp meter and win a darwin)

(additional note: try it with AC current and a volt/amp meter and win a Darwin)

I have shocked myself several times with 110 VAC and lived. I have even done it in the hand to hand mode. Every time I was working with dry areas and hands. It is my belief that people have different tolerances to shock. I would recommend never trying this on purpose. Earning a Darwin isn't mandatory from this kind of shock. But please put this quote into my DA Eulogy.

110 VAC is fairly safe, that is why it is allowed into our homes. Many people die each year from electrocution form 110 VAC it isn't completely safe. I believe most of these electrocutions revolve around using the equipment in a wet location. There are always extenuating circumstances that can cause death from electricity.

I have taken a Variable transformer to class and allowed everyone to put two wires to one hand and turn up the voltage, slowly, themselves, to the point of not wanting to turn it much more. Most people don't feel anything at 20 to 30 volts and stop at about 50 to 60 Volts AC. I stop somewhat higher than average. I wasn't the top voltage, which I think was about 95 Vrms AC.

Do not try this without expert guidance. Make sure someone is at the power shut off, as a last resort power kill. (Don't you just hate to use that word around electricity, KILL) :D Make sure the probes touch only about a few inches apart and the person is ungrounded (insulated from any metal or ground points). And absolutely make sure there is an Isolation transformer. If used without an isolation transformer the person may get connected (eventually) from 110 VAC straight to a ground that was missed. Even the knob on the transformer might be a source or ground.

I have never put an Ammeter in series with this experiment. Sounds like a good addition to the fun. Thanks.

This is totally believable, but I think it lacks that "little extra" we love when awarding a Darwin.

AC is the electricity to use to kill someone. Check with Thomas Edison and his fight (against Westinghouse I think) to get DC electricity the standard to use.

Easy and quick explanation on how it happens. Guy puts one rod in the ground. Puts the other in the ground. Switches on and worms start to pop up. Sits on bucket (stainless steel buckets are pretty common, especially around horse barns) to make it easier to start grabbing worms. Might not have shoes on which makes flow through body easier than through shoes or pants. Might also have shorts on (or a hole in the pants) which allows part of his skin to touch the bucket. Leans over to get that worm right next to the other probe and ZZZZAPPPPP.

Now I would assume the ground was a little moist. Worms like moist ground. Perhaps the guy even sprinkled the ground prior to doing this.

And each leg of 220VAC is 110VAC but is 180° out of phase with the other leg.

Moist skin will conduct electricity pretty easy plus there is a breakdown resistance to your skin. Initially (measured with an ohmeter) the resistance is pretty high. Once some current flows the resistance will drop significantly. Water and blood will flow to the spot where the electricity is "coming in" and further lower the resistance.

oldr_n_wsr

AC is the electricity to use to kill someone. Check with Thomas Edison and his fight (against Westinghouse I think) to get DC electricity the standard to use.

If I remember my history correctly. Thomas Edison fraudulently tried to prove AC was more dangerous by using it to electrocute animals. Neighborhood Dogs and Cats. He found it took more AC than DC to kill them. Yes, Westinghouse was the AC promoter and used Nikola Tesla's induction motor.

Nikola Tesla using a very high voltage and high frequency "Tesla coil" or "magnifying transformer" performed an experiment. He arranged it so that a bolt of electricity (lightning) from the "magnifying transformer" leaped to his hand, when held up. Then it traveled across his body jumping from his buttock to a ground post with a rag soaked in gasoline. The rag caught fire and Nikola was unharmed. Thus forever proving that AC was indeed safe and that Edison was an asshole.

I do not know if AC or DC is used today to kill people in the electric chair. If AC is used it is because it is easier to obtain than DC. Both will kill if done correctly, DC does it at lower voltages.

Moist skin will conduct electricity pretty easy plus there is a breakdown resistance to your skin.

I don't know of the breakdown property you speak of, nor do I deny it. I do however, know that after an arc is started the ionizing that happens to air is more conductive that cold dry air. Also, carbonization of skin and flesh will conduct well too, even if the water dries out from the heat. Lightning strikes to humans often results in cooking and killing of flesh in the area in and around the current travel and is the most destructive part.

The link that I gave earlier seems to lead to those that died had touched the bare rod. Some others got shocked by touching the ground (worms) near a grounded lead. I don't know the full story. I've used such a device when I was a teenager and it worked well. Remember if you don't touch the metal leads you have the resistance of the ground and any other material in the path, bucket, worm, grass, ...... Stainless steel is conductive enough but a higher resistance that other metals like copper or soft iron.

220 VAC is 180 degrees out of phase relative to the ground or neutral. That is where the two wires were poked, allegedly.


The story is plausible but not verifiable. It also presents more questions that it answers. I'm not saying its wrong, just that the skeptic meter is way high. Verify it and the details then award him.

hmmmm....
doesnt sound quite right there Nobody.

AFAIK, AC current is used for our electrical supplies today because DC is affected much more by resistance. Hence, using DC the national grid would contain no overhead wires, but there would be a generator on every street corner.

In terms of biology, AC is also more dangerous. AC will stop your heart, DC causes it to restart. The paddles used in hospitals use AC. The theory is that this will stop your heart and thus allow it to resume its normal function. (so its no good when the heart is already stopped).

Psymon

AFAIK, AC current is used for our electrical supplies today because DC is affected much more by resistance.

Actually, DC transmission lines are more efficient that AC transmissions lines. DC doesn't suffer from the "skin" effect, so the lines will have less resistance for the same diameter. I believe there are a few of these DC high voltage lines in use today. They are used for very long distant lines. Both AC and DC use the same equations for resistance.

E=IR or Voltage = Amperage * Resistance.

AC lines are used because it is very easy to convert from High to low voltages as needed. This allows the "High Tension" lines to be high voltage and the power coming into your home to be low. Converting DC this way required motor-generator pairs in 1900, a high maintenance item. It could be done now using solid state circuitry. Still more expensive and higher maintenance than a transformer.

In terms of biology, AC is also more dangerous. AC will stop your heart, DC causes it to restart.

I've heard this before, but have no idea if it's true or legend.

The paddles used in hospitals use AC.

I do not know how the defibrillators work. I do know they charge a capacitor to regulate how much energy is delivered per jolt.

The theory is that this will stop your heart and thus allow it to resume its normal function. (so its no good when the heart is already stopped).

I do not know about the theory of heart stoppage and starting. I did see a film when I was in High school where a heart was stopped removed reinstalled and started. I seem to remember them stopping the heart with some form of drug injection and using the "paddles" to restart it. However, I may have that backwards (dyslexia darn it) (Wow! I spellt it write). Any doctors or defibrillator designers care to shed some light? This was discussed a little more in the link I gave earlier about the electric fence (Do it yourself do your self in). Good luck finding it in there.

Edison was an asshole.

quite right Nobody,
but we were not about to acknowledge a russian immigrant like Nikola, allbeit gifted, over a wall street shmooze like Edison.


perhaps the common misconception of electricity taking the path of least resistance applies here.

this is not so......

electricity takes ALL avialable paths , the magnitide inversly proportional to the resistance.

also consider the GFI ( which you may have in your bathroom, kitchen, and outside if your a good doobie) has a trip set of 4-6 ma.

4-6 ma was recommended by the medical community back when GFI's were on the drawing board, as a V-fib level, worst case scenario....

so.....over a *&$% worm !  huh!

Chicken Steve How true you are! :D

Even though I do all my own electrical work around the house, I'm not an electrician, and I don't know the difference between AC and DC current, but I can't see how this guy electrocuted himself unless he was touching the bare electrode at the time.

Of necessity, I have changed a light fitting and a couple of light switches without turning off the current in the past and not electrocuted myself, because I was using the proper screwdriver and did not touch the bare wires. The plastic sheath that covers the wires is, as far as I'm aware, non-conductive and safe to touch as long as you don't touch the wire itself. The electricians amongst you will probably tell me that I'm wrong, but logic tells me that I'm right.

There are  lot of threads that I cannot follow properly when the discussion becomes technical and this is one of them. I know you're not speaking Jargonese because it's all pretty basic stuff that you are discussing, but if you don't know the subject too well it's like trying to understand a foreign language.

Um, imortant point to not that you all seem to have missed:

Doesnt matter if its AC or DC. Doesnt matter about the voltage.

All that really matters is the AMPERAGE (Current).

You can be electricuted by a 10 volt power source if there is high current.

just my 2 cents.

Edited to correct spelling

well ...no. not quite true. 10V would not defeat the resistance in your skin.

given that R is 500k-2M ohms for human skin, and using V=IR

I=V/R
I=0.00002 to 0.000005 nowhere near enough to electrocute someone.

Concedes point that 10V probably cant kill you.

This person was probably wet at the time (even sweat is a conductor) which would drastically reduce the human resistance to elctricity. (depends on moisture)

grim squeaker is more right than wrong- current is the big killer with electricity. 100mA- about the same as the current used by a 20W light bulb (in the UK...240v AC mains) WILL stop your heart if incorrectly applied. Trying to get 120mA for 10 volts is tricky though.

Generally DC is more dangerous than AC. DC always has a + & a -. Power flows from one to the other constantly. AC cycles between + & - depending on its frequency..in the UK that's 55hz. What this actually means is that DC can "jump" from power lines like a big bolt of lightning (nature own DC supply). Kids killed playing near train lines don't need to touch the wires- getting within a metre of them (if you're earthed can do it). DC often carries massive currents so DC burns very deeply. Electrical burns are terrible because they go down to the bone. AC never jumps.

Incidentally continual DC also makes you "grip" electrical wires. Cattle fences deliberately pulse the charge 4 times a second to avoid this happening. As far as I know the heart is more sensitive to DC- I think defribullators use DC. One panel is a + & the other a -.(I'm not sure...never used one) Nervous impulses certainly work on (amazingly low power) DC.

AC is used for power distribution because its easy to change the voltages. Massively high voltages are most efficient for transmission. To "step up" 100 volts to a 1000 volts is simple- you get a big metal square wrap the 100 volt wire around on side of it once & wrap the output wire around the other side ten times- 10 times the volts (with, I presume a corresponding loss of amps). If you do that with DC you just generate an electrical heater......shortly followed by an electrical fire.

Back to the thread...the guy was stupid, but also very unlucky. 110V AC shouldn't be enough to kill. Even if his clothes were soaking I'd have thought the electricity would flow through his wet clothes...skin is quite a poor conductor. Maybe he had an existing heart condition?

well, the only way to get 100mA with 10V is by lowering the resistance and the resistance of skin is about 500k-2M ohms as i said.

I think, that means it takes from 50 to 200V to kill someone...
meaning that 110V CAN kill. just 220 is much more likely to kill.

Totally Agreed.

What worries me is how much electricity would you need to make it through the resitance of the ground. 110V can (& does) kill, but normally you've got to do something really dumb like change a lightbulb with soaking wet hands....even then most idiots just get sore arms. I got a big shock at work a few months back- dodgy power pack for western blots. current was the limiting factor (150mA) & it can vary the voltage up to 1000v DC to ensure that 150mA flows. My hands were soaked in transfer buffer (salt, water & meths) although I was wearing latex surgical gloves. The insulation was dodgy because of a loose wire that hadn't been reported- it gave me a huge shock (green flash!!!) & a sore arm. Even with a huge power output my resistance (even with wet hands) must have been very high. Normally all scientific stuff is waterproofed, heavily insulated & earthed so using it with wet hands is normal and not considered unsafe

Like I said this guy was unlucky, which is why I don't think he's really Darwin material.

Psymon
By your calculations 500k-2M Ohms and 0.1 amps. It would take a voltage of between 50-200 kilo Volts.

Meaning it would be impossible to electrocute anyone from 110 or 220 VAC at this skin resistance. However, it still happens. Just as many have stated, usually by making the resistance less by water or sweat or blood. The amperage must also travel through the heart. I don't know what percentage of 1/10 amp must travel through it to kill. All? 0.1 percent?

peter

power pack for western blots.

Power pack, I think, is an older term. Maybe still used for electric trains and other toys and small devices. The more used term in the Scientific world would be "Power Supply", or "Current Limiting Power Supply" as in the one you were using. :D 1000v (DC?) at 0.15 amps WOW! You are one tough Hombre. 150 watts or about 1/5 horsepower. Must have hurt, gooooood! :frown Glad you survived it.

Unlucky yes, stupid yes, Darwin not likely, all too common yes, unlikely it happened as stated yes!

y6ou know, ur right.
theres something not right with that calculation.

*sigh* its been a while since I did any Physics. I get the feeling the units could be kilo ohms......

making my earlier calculation to be
0.02 to 0.005 A
20 to 5 mA.

that sounds a lot better....

Nobody I'm not sure what voltage I did take. The current was certainly 150mA because that was fixed & the voltage COULD have gone up to 1000 to achieve that current (depending on my resistance). I tend to wear light hiking boots to work as they're comfortable & give good protection from stuff like liquid nitrogen- I guess the thick rubber soles & vinyl floors helped insulate me & the charge came through a (very wet) insulated lid, so there'd have been a lot of resistance there too. It DID hurt a lot though, my arm was gently twitching for a few hours after (not enough to see but enough to feel)...very weird indeed. I suspect if I'd just bared the leads and held them with wet hands I wouldn't have survived it... just shows why scientific equipment is so pricey....even broken it's still quite safe.

You're right "power pack" is an old term... We still use it because its unambigous. Power supply COULD be confused with mains supply. Same reason we still use "Chloroform" rather than "1,2,3-trichloromethane"

Incidentally I agree with your conclusions for a DA. There's too much bad luck involved here. Even allowing for all the extra resistance in my accident I'd have taken a nastier shock than that guy...its why I suspect some heart condition. Now...if he had a pacemaker & was playing with electricty THAT might be a D.A!

Edit- Yup DC. You need a constant + &  - to transfer proteins.

surely 1000V (150W) is gonna do a good job of denaturing proteins? ok so your average kettle puts out a lot more heat, but still....kettles arent on for more than 5 mins.

I think this story is UL. It mentions that he's sat on a "stainless steel" bucket, which as mentioned above is very rare.
also - why sit on a bucket? surely a fisherman has some form of outdoor chair?? agreed, that would probably have metal bits, but surely plastic too making it a much better option than a bucket.

Another point. as I mentioned, you only need a connection from one half of an AC supply to ground to get current flowing. Considering that there would have to be v little resistance around (otherwise, no shock) there should have been a massive ammount of current flowing. surely the fuse would have blown in short order (or circuit breaker or whatever) and if it hadnt, wouldnt the plug have been smoking?

Like I said current is the rate limiting factor set on the power pack- the voltage CAN go up to 1000V if the resistance is really high. Normally it only draws 4-6volts at the start & maybe ends up drawing 25-40volts after a few hours (as the buffer in the system starts to dry up resistance increases). Incidentally on the strength of this I'm off to change the max. volts too- we've left it at 1000 as the maximum is the default, but there's no need. Limiting it to 100v would be perfectly adequate & safer.

For a western denaturing the protein isn't a worry. To prepare the samples to run on the SDS gel you have to boil them to denature the DNA (its like thick snot...impossible to pipette the samples). A decent polyclonal antibody will recognise a denatured protein anyway as antibodies only bind to a specific sequence of maybe 10-20 amino acids out of the hundreds there. The aim of the assay is to work out the weight of the protein (and to semi-quantify amount). It doesn't have to be a functional protein you use.

I presumed the bucket was to put the worms in. Again I presumed he was collecting worms prior to going fishing, hence no chair. I'm not sure about the stainless steel bucket- bar ice buckets are often stainless steel, but they are quite small. Maybe the reporter couldn't tell the difference between galvanised & stainless steel? The difference isn't huge & the effect would be the same anyway. This isn't an obvious UL but its a possibility. Apparently electricutions from worm collecting devices aren't unknown so its possible, just a little improbable.

hmmmmmmmm......
SDS PAGE = Western Blot?

Wish I was doing this practiaclly as well as in theory now. I love goo. :D

and assuming the bucket is to collect worms in, any bucket I would be comfortable sittin on would hold a HELL of a lot of worms.

Pretty much. You do your SDS-page to seperate out your proteins according to mass, then you place the gel face down on a sheet of nitrocellulose (which has a strong affinity for protein) & put those two between wads of filter paper soaked in buffer. By putting an electrical charge through the "sandwich" you drag all the proteins (which the SDS leaves +charged) out of the gel onto the NC sheet. The nitrocellulose is stronger than the gel (which rips easily & is quite poisonous... acrylamide BAD!!!) & allows direct binding of antibodies so you can identify one or two target proteins rather than the hundreds you see when you stain an SDS-page gel.  Incidentally its not that great to do... most of the time is spent waiting for things to run... which I why I've been posting so much in the past few weeks!

Fair points about the bucket- I'd guess he used what he had available though & didn't buy a special worm bucket. You wouldn't need to fill it either- it would work just as well with a dozen worms in as full. Like I said: possible.

I could see this story being true on only one condition and that is if it had rained the day before.  This would cause the current to travel through the ground to the man on the bucket.  Mind you i dont know to many people that have metal fishing buckets either.  My personal darwin instinct says this might be a fake.  *Tip of the week* "Never pet a burning dog".

Peter
Correction! What you are using is current limited power supply but used in a constant current source mode. I prefer to call them power converters. However, no one uses that term. We call the mains, Line voltage.

Using a power supply this way can be dangerous if the voltage is allowed to go unchecked to, as you say, 1000 Volts. I was wondering what would need a constant current at 1000 volts when you answered both my questions. One answer was Electrophoresis. The other was can these gels stand 150 watts burning through them without drying out and frying to ash! The answer was it doesn't go above 40 volts. This makes the top wattage only 40 * .15 or about 6 watts, not a real bacon and egg fryer. However, should the voltage go to 1000 volts and the current stay constant the wattage would be 150 it would get hotter than a light bulb.

Reconsidering your shock, it is possible that the voltage went to 1000 volts and the current was .15A it is also possible that the current reached .15A and the voltage required to perform this was much lower. It is also possible that the voltage went to 1000 volts and the current was way less than the amount dialed in. This is because to reach a current of .15 amps on dry skin it would take several more kilo-volts as mentioned earlier. Your hands were wet but protected by rubber (thin rubber) it is hard to tell what voltage your arm actually saw. Ouch!

Out of curiosity what were the two contact points Arm/hand and what foot/leg/arm other?

PS. Turning the maximum voltage to 100 or something not much higher is a good safety idea. Here is to learning not to achieve a DA.

EvolutionAtWork
Learn not to pat a dog burn....ing! :D he he he

Welcome to the fray forum!

Additionally:
Someone mentioned that milking buckets are now commonly stainless steel. If the fisherman was a dairyman, it is more reasonable. The trouble I keep having is the lack of information.

Someone standing or sitting on the bucket would have little chance of being shocked even if current were flowing through or around the bucket. However, picking up the probe while plugged in would certainly cause shock and possible death if contact were made with the conductor portion. The links, I provided, stated that people were shocked by picking up worms close to the probe while the power was on.

Nobody All very fair points. Like I said I've no idea what actually reached my arm... I'd guestimate 10% of what was dialed in. Enough not to make me what to repeat it though!!!!!

The transfer system is two A4 sized graphite sheets inside a perspex box with a perspex lid containg recessed electrical contacts. The contacts fit over 2 "pins" & from the pins run two wires that run deep inside the graphite. The + wire had broken free & rather than report it one of three potential idiots (no evidence which one...worst luck) had just shoved the wire back in. When I set everything up & switched on (as I explained in P.posts its a wet procedure) nothing happened & the transformer flashed up "check connections". I pushed down on the lid to make sure the pins were fully into the contacts & that was enough to make the loose wire arc...

I think the current came through the hole in the lid where the flex goes in & splits to the contacts. Its insulated, but there was enough buffer around to let the current flow. One point of contact was my right hand on the lid, the other could have been my left leg which was against a metal framed bench (plastic covered wood top) with an earthed sink at the other end (about 5 metres away at the other end of the lab). I may have touched the metal case of the transformer (which should be earthed via the mains...3 pin sockets in the U.K) with my left hand, but I really can't remember. Hell of a lot of resistance there anyway which I'm sure helped a lot!

Incidentally the actual gels I run prior to transfer draw about 60 watts, buts thats done in about 4 litres of buffer & I run water through a cooling coil in the tank.... gets rid of all the heat quite easily.

peter Hmmmm, It sounds like some sort of safety features might be added to the device. I can't say for sure without seeing it. Perhaps a ground should be added to cover or at least a grounded ring around the hole the cable goes in? From the sounds of it, you had a very good chance of being electrocuted. Had you not been grounded through a leg and been resting a hand on the bench the path would have been more dangerous. You were lucky. A small flaw, possibly unnoticeable could potentially electrocute someone in the future. Scary! You survived by using the time honored method of keeping one hand in your back pocket, so to speak.

The power converter could be floating from the earth ground, that should be checked and corrected if possible.

You may also want to report the incident to the Manufacturer. It could save live and law suites in the future.

From what I could tell, you did nothing wrong and almost died!

To be honest it was a bit of a fluke accident. It was a combination of a bit too much buffer, a loose wire that shouldn't have come loose & me pressing on the lid to try & make sure the contacts were touching (when what I should have done is switch off & dismantle it to check properly) The supply is certainly earthed properly (we get compulsory electrical safety checks every 12 months).

As it happened I did report it to the manufactures... they'd been taken over by Amersham international who were very good about everything- they sent out a replacement part free (cost is about £400). The actual transfer sandwich would be very hard to earth itself- its all perspex apart from the actual graphite contacts (DOES help prevent this sort of thing) Its generally a well designed bit of equipment. It was 8 year old though & I suspect over time the wire may have almost burnt out which may explain why it came loose.

I was very lucky though. Personally I think the negligence was with the person who didn't report the fault (as I said 3 people are in the frame for it, but I know exactly who's to blame.....no proof though.)

Peter

Un goining back on an earlier point in the thread:

I doubt human skin resistance is that high if the person is not dehydrated. A large amount of your body is water with the little ions floating in it that make it such a good conductor (as we all know pure water does not conduct electricity at all).

This would mean an electrical path would go on the skin until it reached a nerve (with very low resistance) and then course through the nervous system to the ground. Sadly the heart may have been in the way.

Over all a great tale... And i would probably give him his award.

grim squeeker
I find it interesting that you doubt the skin has that high a resistance value. Have you ever measured it? If you lack equipment to do so it is available at any electronics repair shop and many auto repair shops. It is called an Ohmmeter. It will not shock you. Most have voltages less than 1 volt.

The skin has a layer of dead skin cells called the epidermis and there is little moisture in this layer. Getting this layer wet, especially with Seawater reduces the resistance significantly. I don't know if the nerves would be the major conductor or the electrolyte in the blood or just cell to cell.

If you WERE to somehow put any measurable amount of current down a nerve it would just burn out like a piece of very thin fuse wire. Remember nerves AREN'T just biological electrical wires- they work by complex chemical signalling molecules as well as electrical impulses.

Nobody is totally right. Personally I'd guess that the electrolytes in the blood (& other fluids like the cellular cytoplasm) would be the major conductor.

Sorry to go back quite this far, but with regard to the doubts about 10v being enough to kill, I found this:
http://www.darwinawa...win1999-50.html
and more worryingly this:
http://www.beast.kar.../deathfacts.htm
Some of it sounds a bit UL, but the 3 people a year seems to be one of those all pervading myths.
I'm not sure how unlucky you have to be to die from this, but having done something similar I know it bloomin' well hurts!

But the probes had sharp tips, and in his excitement he pressed his thumbs hard enough against the probes to break the skin

the key point in bold there. skin has a loverly resistance normally.

3 people die each year testing if a 9v battery works on their tongue

I fail to see how that could kill you. Although enough amps would flow to kill someone, they would be flowing across the tounge nowhere near the heart.....

<edited cos i stopped in mid thought and pressed submit>

Boff
Your two web sites do place some doubt on the impossibility of killing ones self with 9V or less. However, The 9V tongue thing was mentioned in the "Do yourself in thread" I mentioned earlier. In that thread, someone claimed it had happened and I asked for a link. The person swore he'd look for it, but never reported back. I stated that if you ask a medical person an electrical question, chances are they will know very little. It is doubtful that many of those are qualified to ascertain that kind of cause and effect.

As for the Simpson voltmeter death by 9V, I have some sad news. It wasn't 9V it was no more than 1.5 volts as that is the voltage the Simpson uses to measure resistance. See link below and the quote I've included. 1.5 Volts / 100 ohms is 0.015 Amps. If the 1 10 100 rule is valid. It could have caused his mussels to contract but it shouldn't have stopped his heart. However, I don't believe this either.

I do not know what the internal resistance of the body is. Using a Fluke model 77 at 0.4 Volts to measure resistance, my tongue measured out as 1 to 2 Meg Ohms. (Yes! Electronic probes, that have been used to measure everything from skin resistance and car battery posts, to dirty trailer wiring, taste like crap! But this is science, so what can you do! :D) Addition note: Most Ohm meters use very low voltages so as to not harm the circuit being tested. The internal resistance of a 1.5 volt battery needs to be considered also, probably less than an ohm.

Simpson 260

There are two batteries in the ohmmeter circuits, a NEDA 13F size D cell that
furnishes 1.5-volts for the R X 1 and R X 100 ranges and a NEDA 1604 battery
that furnishes 9-volts for the R X 10,000 range. The 1.5-volt D cell is held in place
with two spring clips which also serve as battery contacts. The polarity symbols
for the D cell are marked near the battery contacts. The 9-volt battery is held in
place with a spring clip, but contact is made with a separate connector that is
polarized. Always observe correct polarity when replacing the 1.5-volt D cell.

See The Darwin Awardee;
Do it yourself Do yourself in

While reading darwin award histories I stumbled over this history from Norway, and I found it odd because I couldn't recall an incident like this, as it would most certainly have been given a fair amount of attention from the media.

So I started looking for the newspaper mentioned (Laagendalsposten, or Lågendalsposten in norweagian) and I found their url using google (http://www.laagendalsposten.no) It's a small local paper, and that could be the reason I couldn't find anything about it in the larger papers. (the url for the article;
http://www.laagendal...8090037&Ref=AR)

However, the article does not mention any of that stated in the submission on darwinawards.com, only that they found a dead man, and that the man had used electricity from an ordinary outlet (220V @10 Ampere, this is more than enough to kill a person)
to flush the worms out of the ground. Findings on the site indicated that he had come in contact with the electricity and that it was an accident and not a crime, meaning, he was an idiot and the story is true.

But the colorful description doesn't fit with the story presented by the police or media, and it (the article) is lacking on detail on the method he used to "darwinate" himself.

So I decided to take a closer look at the submitter, Mr. Knut H. Joachimsen

I ran his name trough the taxlists, and it turns out that mr. Joachimsen is indeed a real person, born in 1949.

It also states his current address and hometown, which is Kongsberg.

Kongsberg is not far away from Lågendal, and could mean that he has knowledge about the history that the media didnt print, or didnt because of the concern for the familily who had lost their son.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case and leave it up ro you.

Grimbo